4.3 out of 5 stars 731. Try and relocate the wires if you can. Price: $21,000. My small dilemma is that I want to get a turntable like a Denon or a Kenwood to match my system. Hi David This is just speculation on my part but I think that S shaped arms probably evolved when all headshells were of the removable variety. It Roy Gandy, designer and manufacturer of the game-changing Rega pickup arms,proselytizes that it is a straightwandwhich can be made stiffer than an S-shaped one. Thanks a lot guys, I just googled a few different tonearms and only just noticed that in all of them, the headshell is offset. As you guys said. I BradOlson Country/Christian Music Maven. Where are the super "S" arms? Light weight straight tone arms have the increased risk of unwanted resonance due to standing resonance waves along the entire length. To get the right offset angle, the arm was bent in a fashion that allows a straight headsell to line up correctly. http://www.tubebooks.org/Books/intro_RDH4.pdf, http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=vinyl&m=650079, Forum Policies, Rules, and Terms of Service. In a high fidelity arm, the needle will "overhang" the spindle by 1/2" or so. I'll be interested in seeing the arm shape explanations that come in here! You mentioned a record vacuum cleaning system. Platter/bearing system3.) By clicking links on our site, we may earn affiliate commission, but our editorial remains entirely independent and unbiased. Straight configurations will take less space width wise. In fact I've spent entirely too much time in there. By clicking links on our site, we may earn affiliate commission, but our editorial remains entirely independent and unbiased. Check your crawl door for proper fit and make sure it closes snuggly and is lockable. I upgraded to a McIntosh 6500 integrated amp a couple years ago, but by then I was sick of the skips. I curremtly have a Rega P3 which I really enjoy for not only it's sonic qualities, but it's utter simplicity. Straight arm vs curved arm TT: any difference. You can have S, J, straight, flat floppy NAD, or what ever arm shape, but the stylus is at a point and angled in a specific direction, and that what matters. Hi, I am another newcomer to the forum. Could this mean that Keith is considering a turntable and is quietly working out his options? You could also consider doing the same thing with a mid-priced Rega or other non-suspended table. As far as I know there isn't a great difference between a straight, S or J tonearm. But as you say, I should only have to do it once, and doing it will have benefits beyond the sonic variety. Straight gives you better tracking (needle stays in groove) at the expense of worse record wear. I have used a couple of different fluids in it, but the Record Research Lab fluid (I order mine from Acoustic Sounds) works best. This little project is not a bad as it sounds and you will only need to do it once. So it isn't quite so stout as I'd like. Dismiss Notice; S-shaped arm vs linear tracker vs straight arm? For shielding? by Abandonflip 10 Feb 2008 19:07, Post The J and S shape tonearms (need to) use the so called ''lateral, balance'' weight in order to get equal pressure on both horizontal, bearings. Which is way off topic. For a straight tonearm the accuracy of the headshell offset angle is very important for the lowest possible tracking error and unfortunately not al But my Prime, with it's heavy platter, excellent bearing and tripple belts, and aided by Phoenix Engineering Roadrunner Tachometer and Eagle PSU, is it's equal both measurably and sonically. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd Either can sound very good if matched to the rest and set up properly I believe but personally Ive always had better luck with straight tonearms. S arms were, among other things, an attempt to add length to the tonearm, since most tonearms are limited in length because they need to fit inside the space that is occupied by the turntable when the dust cover is closed. SME is making some very long straight tonearms for their high end turntables - over 233 mm. curved sounds better on vinyl and produces less record wear. But in practice fact of the matter is Ive never had results with S arms like with straight and most quality tables these days use straight probably for good reason. Yes, I am interested in your thoughts. The advantage is the ability to place the cartridge square in the headshell and achieve offset angle. Press J to jump to the feed. So, Warwick, are you saying that an S shaped arm would have more torsional rigidity but at the expense of more mass? The SpJ tonearm as used on the La Luce Centoventi turntable uses the secondary pivot to stabilize the arm. You, I believe, are talking about straight, non-offset arms used for scratching. I even went out and purchased a new cartridge and needle and still happened. The table you have is decent for sure. I had never imagined such a thing until I tore the bathroom apart for a major remodel. Some claim the straight arm wears out records more quickly, but is better for DJ scratching, as it holds a groove better. By contrast, some claim S-shaped arms are more prone to skipping but don't wear as hard on the vinyl and produce a cleaner sound. Regardless of whether you select a straight arm or curved arm, proper setup is key. More specifically, physics and ultimately, how nice your music sounds. CJO, I was just browsing through and came upon your post. curved sounds better on vinyl and produces less record wear. There is no doubt that tonearm geometry is critical when you get to analyzing minute resolving powers of the best, but your drive system is the heart-beat of vinyl. Then I thought it was entirely based on having detachable headshells that a curved arm would allow to screw on "straight" onto the arm so the cartridge offset would be based on arm geometry while at the same time allowing headshell mounting to be "straight ahead.". that is one of the reasons. Comon' can somebody help before I spend too much for actually nothing. Hope someone really knows why they designed the "S" shaped tonearm. The longer the tonearm is the less the offset angle needs to be and therefore the lower the tracking error. There's no real advantage to curved arms. The arm could be any shape as long as it's stiff and balanced. So do the worlds best turntables. Is this the first floor of your home and do you have a basement or a crawl space? Is there a trick to it? Our publication is supported by its audience. I have also had a newer Throens 850 which I think is tremendously quiet, very black backgrounds, in a simple, but well excecuted bearing, heavy platter, good motor with belt drive system. Powered by Invision Community. I have considered upgrading for some time, which would be accompanied by my building a shelf for the table that is tied into the wall. The wire was pulled into the arm tube but stopped halfway to the cartridge end. I have not found a good substitute for great bearings and a massive platter. As mentioned above, straight tonearms have the headshell offset, so its not realy straight. My question: What are the advantages/disadvantages of each, sonic or otherwise? by Paladin 10 Feb 2008 19:23, Design and Content Vinyl Engine 2002-2022, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited, HiFi Engine | FAQ | Site Policy | Advertising | Cookie Options. Australian Business Number 38 650 151 296. This is just speculation on my part but I think that S shaped arms probably evolved when all headshells were of the removable variety. 4. As you guys said. The OP was talking about the difference between s-shaped and straight arms, both with a bent (offset) headshell. Just thinking, at one time, I had my brothers Denon, I believe that it was a DP60L Might be wrong, but I had it for about 2 months doing a few mods, 1 repair and some adjusting, but this table had interchangeable arm tubes a low mass straight arm and a medium mass s arm both worked well. You can tell the two different straight arm types apart very easily by seeing where the stylus lands relative to the spindle. OK, here goes. HERE, TO CHECK THE WINNERS LIST. Easier to make a straight tube design rigid (for a given mass). But then again you could fill a book with stuff I don't know. What brf and Lewm said is correct and now add helomech. Discussion in 'Turntables' started by This leaves a bunch of crud on the brush, which I sweep off with a dry sponge. Hi, for those bros have played enough with turntables: is there significant difference between the straight arm design vs the curved arm (J-shape, like the SL1200) in terms of sound quality? I have over 2500 LP's, many of which are at least 20 years old. It is the quality of workmanship, bearing and materials that make the difference. Long arms are a better design as the arc the arm moves across is larger and linear tracking would be the best if the world was prefect. [/url]http://www.helices.org/auDio/t..venson.pdf, http://www.helices.org/auDio/t..erwald.pdf, http://www.helices.org/auDio/turnTable/bauer.pdf. I believe the single unbroken run of wire is great in theory, but popy**** in reality. Going from there to the turntable, they attract some dust from the air because of the static the VPI cleaning generates. Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by PBo, Aug 6, 2010. It would have been easier to have the collet type of connection in straight alignment with the armtube and achieve the required offset angle by bending the tube. Possibly just fashion I guess? With the standard Rega "straight" arm it is, to me, a great buy. Cartridge/Phono stage2.) My question was prompted by the TAS review of the Technics SL-1200G in their current issue. I have had both, shoot, I have both now. I would not say that straight or S shape is per se the determining factor regarding sound quality. Many record players, especially high-end models, offer adjustable tracking pressure that, when set If so, this just became a spring project. Once, I figured maybe putting that curve in an arm would add off axis mass and help with anti-skating forces by adding mass to the side of the needle that was on the part of the groove facing inward? It's a functional and useful design. Curved configurations in most cases cannot be reconfigured. If it is a dirt crawl space you should put a 12" or 16" square cement patio block below it in the dirt. I dare say cost in manufacturing will also play a roll. Sckott Hand Tighten Only. Is one tone arm better than the other with tracking regarding a straight design versus a curved design? With a curved arm youbhave to rotate it. Unfortunately the wiring harness got damaged and I now have to replace it. At the time, I didn't compare, we exchanged them based on the cartridge. by Paladin 10 Feb 2008 16:20, Post Then they play fine, with no noise, no grunge. They are different ergonomically, with the GAE easier to setup and to use perhaps appealing to the record collector, the Prime perhaps appealing more to the true audiophile. I guess I could compare my straight fixed headshell & my curved removable headshell arm wands on my EA-10 tonearm and see if there is much difference in sound. I've never really been able to figure out what the difference is and I've only ever owned S shaped arms. On an axe head, the poll is there specifically to act as a counter balance to the bit. Sorry to disappoint you guys but properties like stiffness depend greatly on type of material, mechanical properties of the material, length to diameter ratio, you can't just say J shape better than straight pipe or vice versa. I much prefer the nice curves of my tonearm to a stiff rod. You have to adjust the angle of your needle to the center of the tone arm column. Jump to content Your cable company in their laziness may have run their wires thru your vents, rather than drill the appropriate hole, and ripped your vent screens. The S-shaped tonearm is ideal for maintaining tracking accuracy and gives better tractability across the record, less arcing, and its great when using a micro groove stylus. But in general S and J shaped arms tend to be heavy and straight ones light. "He'll never know! I appreciate whatever advice you have to offer. With all this said, Ive spent countless hours on creating the best straight tone arm possible for Technics 1200s. Then I gave up thinking about it and stuck with straight arms. There seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread. This creates torque on the pivot, and that torque is the reason for anti-skate. Does that have some sort of foil wrapped around the cartridge wires? The GAE has a double gimball bearing arrangement. By Santa will bring me a record vacuum cleaning system this year or there is going to be trouble. Longer arms more closely approximate a tangent but their higher moving mass involves other compromises such as reduced rigidity. When your are down there you might also want to do a couple of things: Clean out all wood debris that you can; put down a poly vapor barrier under the entire crawl space that you can reach and leave about a 1-2 foot rim of exposed dirt at the outer inside-edge by the cement block foundation; check your cross vents and make sure they have good screen and wire mesh on them to keep rodents out!!!. Hi Keith In a pivoted tonearm, the offset angle of the cartridge and the length of the tonearm is what determines the tracking error, not the actua The Graham features VTA adjustment on-the-fly. Although it is correct to say that an "S" shaped tonearm often facilitates the incorporation of a removable head shell into the design, it is not axiomatic that this would be so. Curved vs. straight: 1. And that's the reason "DJ" applications use a straight tone arm. And the electronics sit against a load bearing wall, so finding good support isn't a problem. I'm pretty sure they're used for radio but I want to know what the official name for one is. here is some reading for you Keith regarding tracking errors. The angle of the head shell (although parallel to the cartridge in both S and straight arms) has no bearing. From this it, follows (?) I doubt he is looking at a vintage separate arm! Related question: Has there ever been a curved or "s" shaped unipivot arm? Cleanliness is next to Godliness in trying to extract all the gooves have to offer. I searched the forums and couldn't find anything regarding tracking and tone arm design. The choice of arm (mass being a key issue) is generally dictated by cartridge matching (compliance), so you're usually nudged toward the curved camp or the straight camp by your cartridge. Over the last 40 years I have owned 3 turntables. The two bends add rigidity to vibration compared to a straight tube and flexural waves will be attenuated. (The solder connections at the bottom of the arm to the interlink to the phono stage came adrift). The 'S' curve in the arm is designed to dissipate any external vibrations along its length, whilst positioning the stylus at the correct angle for optimum sound reproduction across Say an isolation platter?. I experienced quite a lot of hum even before the wire harness got damaged. Topic for today: Straight or curved tonearms on turntables? Maybe the wise old hands can give me some advice. Basic physics is at work here. Just discovered mono split mixing and its a game changer. For a straight tonearm the accuracy of the headshell offset angle is very important for the lowest possible tracking error and unfortunately not all are created equal in this regard. With those, one gives up correct tracing geometry to get more reliable scratching without the arm skipping. Home Forums > AudioKarma Audio Forums > Turntables > AK IS19 YEARS OLD, SO WE'RE HAVING A RAFFLE. I am not sure which of these two TTs is the better of the two. I'm fairly new to the TT side of things so if anyone else xam correct me I'd appreciate it. No worries.we understand. As mentioned above, straight tonearms have the headshell offset, so its not realy straight. I dare say cost in manufacturing will also play a roll. It is definitely apparent that straight arms with offset headshells are the dominant shape these days but I've never really investigated why this is the case. This design totally reduces the Unless your system has great recolving power and you are using at least a $1K phono stage from Mr. Fremmer's recommendations, the "s" shape of tone arm may not be the biggest problem. I'm only being curious!!! Damn these threads, now I'm obsessing over my tonearm and set up again. www.musicdirect.com has many isolation platforms, but the heavy foot-falls will require more than that. 2. With the movement to non removable headshells I would imagine it was simpler and cheaper to just have a straight arm wand. Most DJ arms are "underhung" to aid in scratching, whereas straight tonearm with an offset headshell used for accurate audio replay are overhung. then you would love my double s grado signature tonearm. $29.99 $ 29. One or two supports may be enough the solidify the foot-fall vibrations as you walk. Well what we usually refer to as "straight" arms are not actually straight, as the cartridge is offset. A real straight dj tonearm has horrible tra It really doesn't make a difference, but: for a given effective length I disassembled the arm and discovered that the yellow earth wire was not connected on the tonearm side and only to the eart stud on the turntable. The wall mounted shelf will help as well. The turntable issue is more one of should you upgrade your phono stage first. Straight vs. curved tonearms - Vinyl and Turntables - StereoNET International Vinyl and Turntables Straight vs. curved tonearms By Keith_W, November 11, 2009 in Vinyl This should be fixable with a few things from Home Depot or Lowes. So, who first promulgated that thought, Bertrand Russell or William Butler Yeats? Now all I need is to get the boommobiles to go away. With DVS, it doesn't really matter that much. The reason you would choose to buy a turntable with a straight arm as opposed to a curved arm is for scratch control. A straight tone arm has a completely different position, angle and range of grip and is set-up so DJs can scratch with high precision without the worry of skipping records. Straight is generally more used A nod's as good as a wink and all that, (guess which one is Keith and which is Jake:p), Keith - I'm choking on my afternoon tea as I can't speak. But I hardly use it since my floor isn't sturdy enough and so walking is a very risky thing when a record is playing. Thanks for any input. An S shape has the advantage of resonance reduction. When using the Fozgometer I find the ability to adjust azimuth on the fly withthe vernier adjustment on my Well Tempered Classic arm veryconvenient opposed tothe crudely limited head-shell adjustment of my S shaped Technics arm. The only straight tonearms are linear tracking tonearms, the rest of the tonearm with straight armtube have an offset angle of the headshell, so they are not actually straight, except for the very short ones like the ViV Lab for example. I don't know about the whys either. Also, if you are a mix DJ stuck with straight arms and you don't want to put undue wear on your vinyl you can just angle the carts in the headstock. by JaS 10 Feb 2008 10:18, Post the rest of arms as pointed prior either curved or with s-shaped tube. First, I have a VPI record-washer, their cheapest model (about $450-$500), which has been superb. Australian Business Number 38 650 151 296, http://www.helices.org/auDio/t..venson.pdf. What turntable are you going to get Keith? It is a rather hard concept to figure out but once the concept sinks in, it is a magic key to explain why there are weird shaped arms that make smoother sounding music. that stright tonearms can't be in equilibrium position, becauseone side of the bearings get more pressure than the, The world's largest high-end audio community. An entry level Dual from the '70's, a Denon DP-52F (which I still use in my office Regardless of whether you select a straight arm or curved arm, proper setup is key. Its more for at home HiFis. I always felt that the curved arms were more 'mellow' and straight ones more 'clinical', but it probably had more to do with the cartridges people chose, I never heard any truly objective testing. Perhaps would work for me as well? For LP's I have recently cleaned, I don't need to wet clean them again for awhileI just put 'em on the turntable and dry-brush them with the Hunt. Great question, one I've never had an answer for. I've got a couple hundred LP's sitting here that I "gave up on" ten years ago because everytime I went to play them, my phono needle either got clogged with lint/dust or some sort of grungy substance. Of course, it has an "S" arm on it. Why is it that most of todays cost no object SOTA arms employ a straight arm tube. That is one of the biggest improvements in playback quality you can make. Take a look at this! There are so many variables and connections in any one system ( let alone the variables in the LP's) that the I find no real difference between tonearms with fixed headshells or curved arms with detachable headshells , except for the the ultimate question - do you like the sound of the tonearm. If you need new vents they are about $15 each at Home Depot, are a push-in fit the same size as a standard cement block, and have a bi-metallic thermostat that closes the louvers when it gets cold keeping your floor warmer in the winter and with the vapor barrier will keep the ground moisture from entering your sub-floor. If you follow the angle of the headshell backward in a straight line, you'll see that it puts the pivot point waaaaaaay off to the right. 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