4th scan: Assume without any evidence that the Presence exists in the Sphere of the Gods, in addition contradicting Grant Morrison's view on the Presence as DC's God coexsiting with the Source and the Overvoid. The statement is about the enhanced senses of perception of the Spectre as a result of absorbing more energy, not describing anything else you are trying to claim. In fact, I'm using this disscusion to provide information that are not well known, clarify misconception, provide new arguments, etc. As a verb presence is (philosophy) to make or become present. Fire enhances your attributes by 10%] I activated frenzy. U can fool someone like broGoku, or hellsing who are ignorant to DC and favor ur headcanon so theyll take anything even retcon scans to put the presence at the top or say some shit like the presence is left ambiguous on purpose lol he was defeated multiple times, his mind was even put in hell by a minor demon named scoria. So for the same reason explained before, this statement that you have spent time to circled in red is worthless if you are trying to use it as a way to establish a scaling power between Anti-Monitor and the Presence, in addition there is not even a single indicator expressing a comparaison between two figures to support your unfounded claim : COIE Anti-Monitor > the Presence. According to your own standard, this point can not be taken into consideration. You can twist everything as you are very good at doing it, your posts speak for themselves. REDACTOR-EF EDITORIAL. 03:15PM This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll He is above everything and and recording everything.. In 2009, Doctor Light was ranked as IGN's 84th-greatest comic book villain of all time. Therefore, the terms "Creator" in the following statement: "Before the Creator" is inapplicable to the Presence/the Source in the context of the DC's Universe distinguishing both the Creator and the Supreme Being, and also because of the fact DeMatteis view the Presence as Brahman by portraying the Presence as: beyond Understanding, even beyond the Mahapralaya (meaning transcending the character Pralaya) in his run on Doctor Fate and showing that everything is an aspect of the Presence as stated in the Spectre 2001 #10. @au_141: Wow, I will try to respond the rest later, but Michael talked to the artist that drew that map and he said Destiny is not on the top. In fact, there are NO versions of this map in which he isn't beyond the multiverse. Soon the woman begins to exhibit weirdly irrational behavior as the thin line between sanity and possession begins to unravel. They are the ones that bring chaos and order to the universe. But don't worry, I'm not done with your nonsense yet to make you more of a fool of yourseld than you already did on your own. Ignorance. We know at some point of time he created the DC Universe. Post #51. Idk why u think a retcon of that magnitude didnt affect the sphere, but the being responsible for it was stated to be more powerful than Darkseid( a sphere skyfather) who has affected the sphere countless times. I dont need to prove it was metaphoric because the being pralaya was directly compared to is visually absent. Still with this then? But it nearly drove him mad. Confusing, isn' it? Side-note: No Ultra/Prime Monitor, God Swamp. Uh the endless are what theyre in the most literal sense an yes destiny does have eyes he is just blind so blind that he sees better than anything else.damn thats blind an for those curious I already posted the scan of destiny being outside the multiverse in my RT on him an op posted a scan of destiny that had to do with the monitors an in the scan he is called fate. Ur issue is ur mixing cosmology. He is first seen in More Fun Comics #52 that bloomed in the year 1940. Im on your ass, boy. Travel to Marvel lol? Elaine, Michael, Lucifer have talked to the real presence(not an aspect) multiple times in Careys run, and spectre got killed by the spear of destiny while presence was still alive. I don't think it's changed much on the hierarchy Destiny is still the most powerful endless. Not much is known about the Presence what we do know is very vague. Im not home, so i cannot post the very next page of this book. They whitethorn at first be unpigmented or materialise as white, yellow, or marxist foci, which shape up to a more than mature-appearing habiliment or spectral color pathology ( common fig 3, 4) ( 22, 28) buy klonopin online overnight delivery. As a matter of fact, the Sixth Dimension isn't even on the map (since it was created years after Morrison made said map) and it is outside of creation, so you would have a hard time proving that the Endless have any power over it. ucifer's creation is relative to the Orrery? Ahh I just farted. Still not an evidence of the Presence being defeated. 2nd scan: No evidence of the Presence's death. @kuuzo: Get out of here with ur bs, pralaya is a N52 character ur retcon scans are referring to someone else. I am of all faiths in my fashion, Haroun Al Raschid, And I have no wish to take wine. making the claim that everyone is an aspect of him baseless. All that nonsense ends. But u however will always be in denial, using anything, even if its not relevant, to support ur theory, and i can see no amount of copium is going to ease ur cv psyche knowing there are better theories so u bash on others that makes more sense than yours. @galaxium: I only see a scan of Lucifer talking about vertigos Brahma. The Presence is a 2010 American horror film written and directed by Tom Provost and starring Mira Sorvino, Shane West, and Justin Kirk. Did not me take me long to come up with this small debunk part setting the tone for what is to come for both of your posts, which you have deliberately chosen to continue to sink into the abyss. And here comes the mental breakdown, soon to be on assistance. And a N52(Vertigo/DC) scan of a deity stated to predate god. Presence (Character) - Comic Vine Presence appears in 66 issues View all The Defenders 8 appearances Quasar 7 appearances Avengers 5 appearances Darkstar & The Winter Guard 3 appearances No. That can be taken in favor of or against your argument. The Presence The Presence Prime Earth. You keep using the statement: "Before the Creator" , not treated as "metaphorical" when it only suits you, while it's part of the same narration, lol, and without even understanding the sentence itself. All fire rages. Where is the burden of proof on me? Comic Vine users. Scale the characters to EVERY THING IN DC AND MARVEL KNOWN. I am of all faiths, in my fashion. Your posts suggest it. Lucifer Morningstar & Gabriel Hornblower True God omnipotent or presence hahaha you are look like a funny show who is omnipotent in dc is still a question but according to me omnipotent is leviathan of stories not this fodder god or true God presence and Gabriel killed presence I said it multiple times and also Gabriel defeated Lucifer in Lucifer comic dark presence is the biggest fodder . And yes he knows the stories he didn't create them. OT there is evidence that theyre the same when spectre first met it he didn't know what the source was probably because he isn't omniscient but he had heard of it either way when he first went to it he states he sensed Michaels power in it then he asked the source the mystery of god an the source showed him the mystery an spectre became one with the universe. He was called the Presence a number of times in Vertigo runs where he's also called Yahweh, "They'll defend the throne and the Presence". Lastly, with the ideas of multiple multiverses like the one consumed by the Empty Hand, Lucifer's Creation, and those created by the Supercelestials like Perpertua, does this imply that there is a Source Wall between Multiverses just like there is between univereses? Eclipso (/ k l p s o /) is a supervillain in the DC Comics Universe. DeMatt literally wrote in the front cover that he wanted to try something new and make changes to Vertigos/DCs continuity by creating new characters(nick Necro, pralaya) introduced in the N52/rebirth cosmology. That's why there are so many different cosmognies stories in which the Presece is treated as the DC's Supreme Being with regard to its intermediaries Michael/Lucifer, Synnar, Perpetua, etc. Star TrekUn nouveau monde trange. The means through which Perpetua was able to create the previous Multiverse were provided by the Presence/the Source. Mat 2 y 9 mo 18 d. The One-Above-All - vs - The Leviathan Of Stories #. Although his power is virtually unparalleled, he rarely interferes in the affairs of mortals directly, instead acting through agents and aspects of himself, such as The Spectre. Unrelated to angels. Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words. @kuuzo: I dont use off record chitchats to come up with theories that contradict the actual comics. @au_141: The thing with the Countdown Monitors is unclear, but technically they indeed reform, but not as themselves, but as Mar-Novu, the Over-Monitor of the First Crisis: All of them are pieces of the Over-Monitor, but we don't know if they had access to the Sixth Dimension (probably not). @galaxium: why is kali an aspect of Michael? As lucifer told nelos that he was surprised that melos wouldn't dare mess with him but he would one of the endless. In its most straightforward applications, this ability allows the user to instantly kill others by manipulating factors associated with death to make them die. Why you don't show me Destiny of the Endless on the Multiversity first? Omnipotence: The Presence is omnipotent meaning he is all powerful. His nature is pretty clear to me, honestly. DIRECTOR. Character https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Doctor-Fate-1988/Issue-6?id=22111. How the burden of proof falls on me when no one here have showcased said "influence" of the Endless? Searching Browse AD FREE for less than 84 a month with an SHDb membership. The voice/yahweh/Christian god = 1 diety, ruler of the silver city. Also, my argument is that if you want to dispute position based upon ignoring placement in the actual refined map, then we can do that for any of the beings there, not just Destiny. As a matter of fact, nor Brahma was actually portrays in this storyline; does not mean that Brahma is not an actual figure in the DC's Universe or that "the Sleep of Brahma" is not an actual eschatology belief in the DC Universe or whatever ridiculous implication from your illogic point. And the void is God's unconscious/the sleep of Brahma (sleep and unconscious are the same thing; which is how I understood that Brahma and the Presence are the same) as she called it. Also, our place is From initial planting, a vine takes small, a boutique winery. Characters Without Pictures The Oblivion Shadow- Threat to the entire DC Metaverse which is all of dc Pyscho Pirate With Medusa Mask- Repaired the DC Multiverse, Brought back the whole DC Multiverse Una The Worm (Anu)- Created a Universe, last check: 12th September 2018 Scond List (101-200) Third List (201-300) Fourth List (301-400) Fifth List (401-500) Sixth List (501-600) Seventh List (601-700) Eighth List (701-800) all heroes with their morals and w/o prep I also add wildstorm, ver, Here is the collection of every single overpowered character in American Comics. Pralaya called herself the unconscious of God. So, in actuality ur description of me in ur prev posts poor understanding , baseless claims , mental breakdowns is actually describing urself. Issue #39CENTS In the Presence of Mine Enemies (1973) #39CENTS Mobius not only outperformed presence in coie. Fair point on kali, But This just means that Michael is under the deity called Rama K, supreme deity of the Hindu realms. Also, the following materials may be helpful for clarifying Death's relationship to beings like the Black Racer. Very odd that you are describing yourself in your own comment, but "ok". The, You haven't showed their area of influence getting out of the sphere of gods or out of the DC "Megaverse thought". He has a longer history in the DC Universe than Morrison does. Aspects You can search for Answer (1 of 10): The Presence is the true god of DC, the one who created everything. Scoria was able to built a place tapping into the mind of God. 139 lbs (63 kg) Raven is a member of the Teen Titans and a recurring superhero from DC Comics . Yes, he said that Destiny's position is only metaphorical and not literal, which debunks this nonsense of Destiny being above evergthing. 211. The narration called pralaya older than the creator, and the multiverse is infinite. Is it the case that death as concept doesn't apply to Monitor+ level beings? I'm not ignoring anything buddy. I am thinking that if the Endless are indeed limited to the Sphere of Gods, simply proving that the Imps can die would place them in the Sphere of Gods. All the other Monitor type beings are untethered by any form of creation which is the height of Destiny's influence. I can wait for the end of the world before you come up with anything even remotely substantial. As nouns the difference between presence and appearance is that presence is the fact or condition of being present, or of being within sight or call, or at hand while appearance is the act of appearing or coming into sight; the act of becoming visible to the eye. With the unexpected arrival of the woman's boyfriend, the dark spirit's haunting grows more obsessive. The sum of hue in the prosthesis performs to step-up with the time of life of the lesion. REDACTOR-EF 2/2020 Ana-Maria Deliu. @hellsing_: lol what? Pralaya is a n52 deity, she has like one showing that was described in a metaphorical way but factually stated to predate god. Death appearing in the Hulk was in a Marvel story arc so it wsn't a crossover at all. I don't even need you to the bring the evidence of this headcanon, as the same Neil Gaiman Sandman story you'are using contradicts this, unsprinsignly as I'm used to with all your claims, by establishing clearly that the words written on Destiny's first page of his book were: Quite explicit concerning the anteriority of the Presence in relation to the Dream. God So there is evidence but I believe there is evidence to state otherwise its all author dependent. 12 results Sort By . He is probably stronger than the Endless, that is for sure. Doubles the spread of fire, doubles the damage of fire. Pralaya is just a manifestation of the void. Kali is a hindu goddess, and she's an aspect of Michael. @hyoname: It's not really a battle, I just wanted to discuss the roles both these entities play. Then possibly limbo it is mentioned in vertigo just not its placement. Because the thing is, that's just another name for Destiny. The character debuted in More Fun Comics #52 (February 1940), and was created by Jerry Siegel and Bernard Baily . Have fallen for a thousand tales' end. Also as a bonus if we equate Monitor Mind, The Source and the Presence, that would also mean that The Presence's will would be Mandrakk: @sagathelegend: @y3kthunder: Yeah it makes sense that writers consider them separate entities. In actual Hindu religion I think u might be right. The aspects, are the sources. None of you posted a singles scan here regarding the Endless and yet you ask me for proof of what? FFINALIDAD Y ALCANCE DE LAS ACCIONES LOS REMEDIOS CONTRACTUALES" Enrique Barros Bouse" 1. Contents It never needed proof in my opinion, it's common sense. Like I said THOUSAND TIMES, he resides in the sphere of gods, but that does literally not mean that Destiny is limited to the sphere of gods, lol. Presence is yahweh, the Christian god. He was created to be the fictional representation of the Judeo-Christian God, and has also become a notorious character in DC Comics. Have a nice day, buy bye. Both storylines treats the mahapralaya, the sleep of brahma, end of creation with the small change regarding the figures involved ,but the point remains the same as God is the one involved, as shown explicitly in Doctor Fate #6 and implicitly through Pralaya, treated as an aspect of God. The last piece of evidence making the Presence the depiction of the Abrahamic God is, however, an indirect one, which can be logically deduced from the fact that Dream of the Endless is a figure who has asserted to be under the Muslim God and Christian God in different instances as shown the scans below. @au_141: Mandrakk is actually a part of a race of celestial beings called Nil Monitors, they exist in Nil, which is also on the Multiversity Map. on 09/09/22 Based on this information we can conclude 2 different things 1)This avatar is created by true form presence so as he said The true form is external force. the presence has been just yahweh for over 30+ years, he is no other character. As the existence of the Presence is one with the Void; it means therefore that the Presence precedes also all belief/dream/imagination shaping him as a "God" figure within: a set of beliefs system and the perception/view of God that people holds as I've shown previously about Jim Corrigan. I have also not seen a single metaconceptual being named Fate with these aesthetics, mentioned or seen anywhere in the DC comics. Forgive me if I have strawmanned anyone here. What claims have I made that are baseless? login to vote. The sudden disappearance of God in their confrontation symbolizes his change of view of God, i.e he no longer has the same perception as he did. If so, would Lucifer and his ilk play a similar role in a cosmic sense to the (True) New Gods and other pantheons since they both reside within the Godsphere? And when . "Destiny is just metaphorically above everything, recording. The two radioactive beings joined forces against the monster. This is mostly used as a vehicle for their extensive Super Hero mythos, although the nature of the universe allows for almost unlimited storytelling potential in many different genres. Hughs LITERALLY says "Destiny" by his name. True nature is unclear, but at least according to one history, it made the "DC Universe", The Presence: Being that is surrounded by religious motifs, created the angels, demons, etc Has no relation to the New Gods. Try again. Spectre said the presence was missing, and that he might learn something from the source in dc cosmology. That's not stated anywhere in this thread. We already know there are an infinite amount of multiverses (as many as DC wants). And you guys input makes a lot of sense. The connection between the Source (traditionally known as the "God" of New Gods like Darkseid and Orion) and the Presence (traditionally seen as the Judeo-Christian God) has been hinted at in a variety of settings, but it hasnt been brought up in a few years. To understand this better, i'll explain each and every single one. Powers and Abilities Original The Source originally is fully omnipresent, omniscient, and nigh omnipotent. See you with your second, even third, forth, fifth accounts in few hours. So this whole Pralaya is above the Presence because she is stated to exist "before the Creator" falls appart. He is the Son Dax Novu/Mandrakk yet he also seems to be one of the monitors from Countdodn. This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for: Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other 2 Pages 1 2 > Rare's presence at Comic-Con. Have a nice weekend, ta ta. Lucifers creation is outside what his father made. No one at any point, ever thought to place Destiny where he was "supposed" to be after all these years??? Frst off, the summary expresses where the Endless are housed, not where they are limited to. Then there are the guys that make those guys smaller than quarks on the grand scale of things. There are aspects of the source amongst the old and new gods, Not the presence and ur scan dont say that. A retcon erases the memory of whatever so no one in a retcon world will remember or notice the change. Btw lucifer was going to get erased to nonexistent when Yggdrasil was tainted by impurity similar to when Orion killed his father in the heart of the source. In his hand, lied the White Lantern, which he used to bestow light upon the void. Although his power is virtually unparalleled, he rarely interferes in the affairs of mortals directly, instead acting through agents and aspects of himself, such as The Spectre. Product Type Clear All Product Types ; Books (90,340) Magazines & Periodicals (393) Comics (12) Sheet Music (14) Art, Prints & Posters (46) . Scans that override and take precedence over the retcon outdated ones. this is basically a personal statement of one of the cast writing n52 jla dark, talking about characters brought from both vertigo/dc into the mix. It's not just Yahweh. puts her well beyond anything in any comicverse. MOUNT ROYAL BIODIVERSITY The mountain is home to thousands of types of insects, plus 700 species of plants and 90 species of trees. Think of those sea creatures on old maps. Tags for those that might have answers: @sagathelegend@y3kthunder@sungsam@mbatz@etriel@michaeljulius. So, in actuality ur description of me in ur prev posts poor understanding , baseless claims , mental breakdowns is actually describing urself. So yeah, two completely different characters that have almost nothing to do with each other. For those that believe that Destiny's reach is beyond the Sphere of Gods, what would be evidence that those stories contain the history of the Monitor Sphere or above? To keep making a negative claim is not an evidence. @sladeracer: But kali is an aspect of Michael. An according to that story he has infact went beyond the source into the void beyond. You should know this as well, shouldn't you? I don't want a quote you can take out of context. When the presence left his creation, not all things started to die Lucifer was fine until Yggdrasil decided to eliminate everything. There is also the fact that the Presence precedes the Endless, including Death of the Endless, who are side-effects of his Creation. Skip to main search results. could be The Writer . Les Tortues Ninja ( Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles) est un film amricain ralis par Steve Barron en 1990. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/the-presence-dc-2268361/?page=1#js-message-25928988. So-called "recton" turned out be rectoned by DC with Convergence and Hypertime in later years of New 52. @kuuzo: On my ass? LOL. I'm not ignoring anything buddy. 37. Spectre said the presence was missing, and that he might learn something from the source in dc cosmology. Destiny of The Endless never appeared in any DC Cosmology comic, he didn't appear on The Multiversity, didn't appear in Final Crisis. Scale Presence to. Even if there is no confirmation of the "metaconcept of Fate", it doesn't matter since Destiny is not really up there. @y3kthunder: @sagathelegend:Thanks for the Twitter screenshot that clears alot of things up. You can provide one by editing this article. As for her relationship with the endless mostly unknown dream tells a story of the multiverse coming into being an the monitor brothers an barbatos. To go along with my other list, I present to you a collection of characters who predate the New 52 and appear within it. said user has to go on twitter lol, fish for retcon scans. She is the end all, be all personification of the concept in DC comics. Monitor mind is older than all, older and more powerful than Mobius who outperformed yahweh in coie. U are the only person in this thread having mental breakdowns Im not reallly even replying to the majority of ur gibberish u legit tried to use Twitter and retcon scans as evidence to support ur shit theory and that shit had me rollin. Some of you would think of other characters, but looking through all research, these are the characters that rank up to the Top 10. But the fact that you even said this tells me everything. Ever. No you can't, since he was only referring to the drawn part of the map. Parroting the same thing over and over again that the author used some sort of writing style, while the scan shows that Pralaya can actually be referenced this way ("Call it what you Will") shows a lack of reasoning, even common sense or a blatant misunderstanding of what a metaphor is. And as it seems you are unaware of, Destiny is the oldest of the Endless and stated to be a side-effect of the Presence Creation in Mike Carey's Lucifer, which follows up the events of the Neil Gaiman Sandman story. Enhancement of Fire In the presence of the sun. In other words, cherry-pick things going in the same sense as your DC's heacanon, noted. That is not me saying that, it is the guy that made the map saying it. In any case, it's a little extra evidence since this Creator-Supreme Being was already well established before DeMatteis contribution. Be it metpahorically or literally, it is DESTINY. Created by Erix01. So really, weve never seen the real Presence. U can fool someone like broGoku, or hellsing who are ignorant to DC and favor ur headcanon so theyll take anything even retcon scans to put the presence at the top or say some shit like the presence is left ambiguous on purpose lol. The author clearly says Destiny is not above everything and is only metaphorically above it. Like I said posts before, there are different instances from different writers showing that the Presence's very existence is instrinsically related to the Void, which I've provided already one evidence from Alan Moore's Swamp Thing, taken specifically from the aftermath of the "American Gothic" storyline. But to make your case even worse, altough New 52 was originally set to be a "reboot", it took a drastic change with Convergence and the re-introduction of Hypertime, approving back the relevance of Pre-New 52 materials in this DC so-called rebooted state. "I think you're taking the positionof Destiny on the map a little too literally. Is this also the case for Mandrakk as well? https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/the-presence-dc-2268361/?page=1#js-message-25918691. He was originally a Monitor called Dax Novu, created by the Overvoid to explore the narratives of the DC Multiverse, also called the Flaw. A list of the beings that have been stated to be nearly omnipotent during the course of the fictional continuum. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. @sagathelegend: Would this be the same with the Countdown Monitors as well? I won't come back on your made-up "reboot" and "recton" definitons, which you have been corrected in previous posts. La substance les fait grandir autant en taille qu'en intelligence. In N52(vertigo/DC cosmology) Pralaya predates the presence. I won't waste too much time answering all this nonsense. That to me makes no sense. Basically everything in post#36 is incorrect. 0 wins (0%) 9 wins (100%) Darkseid (True Form) Uxas Prime Earth. The Presence & Elaine Belloc vs Yog-Sothoth. Spoilers: You can't. Using the term "baseless" for something that can be found in primary, secondary, etc. The Infernal Machine (15) Twenty-five years ago, Bruce Cogburn (Guy Pearce) was an award-winning author for his best-selling debut novel The Infernal Machine. The Presence is the creator of the DC Multiverse. I dont recall the presence having aspects in DC, tho he can if he wanted. That directly contradicts you. The Spectre serves The Presence and wields incredible cosmic power, however, he is constantly at risk of being corrupted by the power. For more information on this matter from secondary sources: https://insidepulse.com/2015/07/26/dc-comics-post-convergence-new-infinite-multi-multiverse-just-how-vast-is-the-dc-you-spoilers-dan-didio-grant-morrison-speak/, https://comicbook.com/news/decoding-convergence-with-jeff-king-the-finale/. Congrats, epic debunking here. The character bares notable similarities to Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.. Eclipso appears as the main antagonist in the second season of The CW television show Stargirl portrayed as an . Unless there is a shred of evidence of what you are try to articulate, which you still fail to do so, parrtoting the same negative claim over and over about a metaphorical description within the same narrator speech you've have (mis)used on Pralaya described as "before the Creator". DC did not have to transition to a complete new continuity (New 52) unrelated to the previous one (Post-Crisis) since a recton can always occur in the current already existing continuity, but this is clearly not what happened for DC following the Flashpoint event which lead to a discontinuity with: a relaunch of main titles, new origins of "all" characters, disregarding of Pre-Flashpoint events, setting up a new cosmology, and the list goes on. Here it is cited as the creator of the DC Universe. 2 Pages < 1 2 Rare's presence at Comic-Con. Doesn't matter who it is on the top. @kuuzo a guy is telling me that the presence isnt the supreme being of dc and that he literally died via this. Register Sign in. Claiming that particular descprition is metaphorical without any substance does not make you right, in fact, it's called "cherry picking" as all description on Prayala are equally true by the mere fact that she can be called in many ways: Add to this the fact that DeMatteis previous work on Doctor Fate still show that consistency that it is not other than God setting forth the Creation and the Mahaparalya, supporting further that the character Pralaya has been introduced by DeMatteis as an aspect of God to illustrate the time when Creation itself will be dissolve into Darkness, as I've already mentionned. This here just proves you haven't even read the scans properly. New Gods are platonic, fundamental and primal forms: So unless you can prove The Black Racer is an aspect of Death (you can't , because he is platonic, meaning he is an fundamental form of the world, and because the New Gods have zero relation to the Endless). Searching Browse AD FREE for less than 84 a month with an SHDb membership. She can't be older than him. 5:00 (Interview with Scott Snyder, writer of Metal and Death Metal) This also means that the "God" that exists in the Sphere of Gods is just a manifestation, avatar, or aspect of the Presence. So you tell me where this "Fate" character is in Multiversity. If not, what is their relationship to another? For those that believe otherwise, it would suffice to show that the Monitor Sphere is not recorded in the Book. Monitor mind is older than all, older and more powerful than Mobius who outperformed yahweh in coie. I think they're supposed to be separate entities IIRC. He corrected them back in the 90's sine they need permission to use her. For instance, the fact that Lucifer was able to travel to edge of everything a perceive the Source which is something that to my knowledge most other entities in the Godsphere and the Monitor Sphere can not achieve. No matter the context. . Each world has evolved, but they alll still exist. Im not contradicting myself, Im reiterating the scan predate god , even god must fall which u obviously have a problem with that u had to go bring social media to refute a n52 scan. Immortality: The Presence can't die or age. More than 180 bird species have been spotted, with about 100 present on a regular basis. And Belial talking to PS in a omni nexus, insinuating Presence was never called " the voice" is proof he was retcon. For others, it is unnecessary repetition. "the only being that was called god other than the presence is dr.m". By ordinary means the beings of the Orrey can't access other dimensional and conceptual realms like the Sphere of Gods or the Sixth Dimension normally. But with either of these conclusions, it seems that the Gods and everything above them must be unique to each of these creations which seems confusing so maybe I have made a mistake somewhere. . The Creator and the Supreme Being are not always the same figure, ontologically speaking. The true form of the New Gods are basically abstract fundamental concepts. Another user here on CV confirmed that said scan was made by a guy called thebestdebater, a Google+ debater that attempted to prove the Void, the Source and The Presence were the same. Here is Grant Morrison, another writer of DC's view on it: Grant Morrison says that in his cosmology The Source is the same entity as his God (who is not the Presence, it's a being called Monitor Mind or Overvoid). It was Perpetua, remember? Religion/brahma is younger than perpetua, so no presence is not monitor mind. The middle of three brothers, Dennis was rebellious and argumentative; he often acknowledged that he was the Wilsons' "black sheep." He joined America's band, The Beach Boys, when his mother pushed his brothers to let him play with them, although at first he . When we eat this Bread and drink from the Cup we enter into communion with his Body and Blood. Character Post #1. The Endless, Lucifer and his ilk have been said to be either supreme embodiments of concepts or concept creators too, so I believe in the cosmic sense they would indeed have similar functions. On the Monitor stuff, I will agree that Death can affect the Monitors when they are inside the Multiverse, but as we discovered in Justice League 2018, the Monitors' true bodies, their true form always reforms in the Sixth Dimension. It seems that the sons of Perpertua reside above the Imps, yet they are clearly above everything in the Orrery. I suppose that's possible but according to monitors fans it all hypertime lanes that separate them hope this helps yeah, Is the Book of Destiny the same as the Book of Infinite Pages (As shown in Final Crisis?). They where the that. The Spectre wasn't thinking about the source here, that came later. 138 Date: August 1963 Format: 14-page main feature. Ur the one that needs to stop talking, especially when ur dumbass question was answered long ago :P, @yaroaim the OP of this threadyou are the ignorant one L, The Source, The Overvoid, The Presence, The Writer=God, Or as it might be, the aspects of myself through which I act. It is like another user here said, different writers have different views about what The Souce is, but I can do a rundown on the similarities and compare it to The Presence, The Souce: Primal concept, entity, or force, it is related to the New Gods and devoid of any religious themes surrounding it. In addition to what was said previously, you show a cognitive dissonance in terms of understanding, as the statement "God's Unconscious" does not refer directly to God, but to the figure that reflects this aspect. I'm the paid agent of the Triune Godhead, the King of Heaven. None, they would still be bound to the sphere of gods. She called the void older than the creator, but the Presence didn't create this multiverse. The last final issues were about the Spectre, rather, Jim Corrigan confronting God, who was depicted as Francisco Goya Saturn, since this was the way Jim Corrigan viewed God untill the outcome of their confrontation, in which Jim thought he literally managed to kill God. Not knowing the difference between a reboot and retcon; the difference between Morpheus and Daniel; the anteriorirty between the Endless with Destiny as the oldest one; and I have left out a few. N52 isnt a reboot, its a retcon. Flatland Pictures cabin island marriage proposal outhouse vacation gone wrong 10 more Plot summary Plot synopsis Where is the burden of proof on me? That he overlaps certain areas is less important.". The Countdown Monitors are fragments of the Mar Novu. 408B. Who brought forth the New Gods? He's saying they don't always correlate. This also makes me wonder about the nature of those reside within the Godsphere and the Monitors. Created by METALLICBABY. Religion/brahma is younger than perpetua, so no presence is not monitor mind. Geoff Johns(president of DC comics) personally wrote it on the back of rebirth omnibus. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/the-presence-dc-2268361/?page=1#js-message-25925390. The latest Lucifer writer to date, Dan Watters, also addressed this idea in his first books, depicting Lucifer as a figure who "have lived a thousand tales and more. And further examination shows that Scoria could only interact, similar to what Takion could with the Source, but could not interact in opposition to it in any way, only observe the thoughts of God. I guess cherry-picking what you want doesn't work in your favor. the being representing the void is older than the presence, older than all creation in the multiverse. power stats. And he is hinted at being above most angels. Star Trek : Un nouveau monde trange ( Star Trek: Strange New Worlds) est une srie tlvise amricaine de science-fiction cre par Akiva Goldsman, Alex Kurtzman et Jenny Lumet. That holds all things you have the destinys realm which is the peak of existence. Vertigo=\=DC mainstream unless stated otherwise. Destiny's book has no existance outside of him from what I remember, that book was found completely abandoned in limbo, a meta space that Destiny has no authority whatsoever. Also, does anyone know the context behind this? @y3kthunder: Destiny is above the countdown Monitors. Death is SUPPOSED to be limited to the SoTG, yet she's the only being who has travelled beyond DC verse to Marvel and she on panel, has claimed (and will claim) the entire DC multiverse. According to Comic Vine, this is the costume he wore after being resurrected as Adam in order to defeat Thanos and protect half of all life in the universe from being blinked out of existence by . It doesn't take any mental gymnastics to figure out that the description of Pralaya as "God's unconscious" means what it means at first glance and along with the later statements about this character, but it seems we're dealing with an exceptional case. Claiming pralaya is an aspect of god( n52 says she predates him and must fall) is borderline headcanon, and incorrect. The second says that he is not true form. The method varies, however; some users may halt vital biological processes or attack the soul directly. It would have been more than alarming if you didn't know that comics are a collective effort of writers, duh. he said that destiny oversees even the monitor sphere which does this no correlate with this image? Plot. All changes in DC's continuity did not change the fact that the Presence "God" exists outiside of his Creation as a matter of fact, and it's clearly not your headcanon that will change that fact at all. 2nd claim: The titans brother reaching godhood means they defeated the Presence? In the Presence of Mine Enemies: 7 Years a POW in Hanoi (Comic) 1973 on Amazon.com. The Endless are listed in the Sphere of Gods, the author confirmed he is only metaphorrically and not literally on the top. A vine coiled around its neck, another vine held onto its face, and a third vine ran from my arm to the Guardian. It does not matter, the validity of the claim does matter. Clear Advanced Options. In any case, there are other explicit evidences, but I don't need to substantiate it further by using agaisnt you the same source you are using. Meaning everyone inside DC comics N52 was altered without knowledge, yes even the presence(sphere god). I cited lines imprinted on a comic book panel, thats still useable up to date. Thanks for confirming that. This statement is worthless without any proper context, especially in DC in which there is a clear distincion between the Creator/Demiurge and the Supreme Being, without even having to use DeMatteis works that it has been this way. He was using DeMatteis statements when DeMatteis doesn't even know what the Overvoid is and doesn't care about DC Cosmology. Pralaya cant be the presences aspect if shes older. That is why I said out of context scans. Lol, leaving the DC Universe doesn't qualify as leaving the Sphere Of Gods at all. If this idea holds for the official version of the map as shown in the third image, then it seems that Book of Destiny does seem to include everything. And if the case was not already worse for you, Grant Morrison, co-creator of the Multiverse Map that lays out the blueprint for DC's cosmology, did not only mention the concept of Hypertime at the time when New 52 was the current state of DC, but as well made clear that the former Multiverse (the Orrey of Worlds) has been formed through Hypertime. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/the-presence-dc-2268361/?page=1#js-message-25928149. And now ur lying about the presence not getting directly involved with his own creations. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/fr/dictionnaire/anglais/predate. Comic Vine users. It showcases exactly what I was saying. So I ask you again, who is in the OM? Thank you for this laugh. Dennis Wilson was born in Hawthorne, California in 1944 to Audree and Murry Wilson. Make up your mind before I post my reply which will give you a third blackout, forcing you to switch accounts once again. Lol, you proved yet you haven't even read it correctly. The source and presence are diff characters, and neither are supreme in DC. En 1912, Arthur Conan Doyle est un auteur clbre et il entend prouver une nouvelle fois qu'il est un auteur complet et non pas simplement le pre de Sherlock Holmes.Son nouveau roman, qui parait en feuilleton dans le Strand Magazine, s'intitule Le Monde perdu et met en scne un groupe d'explorateurs britanniques dans la rgion des Guyane, au sud du Venezuela en pleine . Presence is left to be ambiguous in general.I take y3k's side to this char. I did read it correctly, Michael asked Hughes about the actual Multiversity Map, and used the drawings of the earlier version of the map (the image in the actual thread) as a basis for his question. The presence of natural law and laws of nature in these Roman thinkers does not imply that they anticipated the essentially Christian background of the former or the mathematical presuppositions of the latter. But but one point I will adress is the fact that the Presence/the Source are not a mere Creator/Demiurge figure as there are many others, but the Supreme Being of the DC's Universe. The Presence The Presence is God within the DC Universe. So, ur the only one making shit up going off record on Twitter, mixing comics that got retcon, to describe a character older than the presence, as his aspect <~~~~ headcanon . Register Sign in. Superhero battle match: Zeus (GreekMyth) versus The Presence. Search a pre-defined list OR Select a range . This "the light = god = presence" reasoning shortcut is wrong by the mere fact that God in the DC Universe transcends duality, of which the Great Darkness and the Presence residing in the Primium Mobile (as well the Overvoid in the current DC's state) are part of it as shown in the same comics book mentioned above. Well, that is not me saying it, it is the artist of the comic saying it, that was his way of making this representation of Fate different. You could say that he made the "Vertigo Multiverse". if you are slow mind has hard times to understand things. My hiatus from the Vine has been too long so I don't remember who liked to talk about what. So if you want to argue that it's not him literally up there, who is it? He doesn't. Its stated that until the Presence dies, the Spectre and the Radiant cant, only their HOSTS can. @au_141: Well I misinterpreted some things earlier because I was tired and sleepy so instead of adressing the other debaters again and again, I will just post a single post after after gathering some more evidence. The Faceless God, a mysterious avatar who can send its worshipers back through time itself. As I said, very odd habit to refer to yourself in your own comments. I dont need to prove it was metaphoric because the being pralaya was directly compared to is visually absent. Sure. sources is a misuse of the word. Then you have the mansions of silence an the silver city you have the source or source wall at the edge of the multiverse the dreaming the faeries apokolipse an the new gods as darkseid and his race have either been mentioned you have the infinite branching multiverse an you have hell way on the other side. If my fav character was said/shown multiple times in canon to operate below others, I have no problem knowing that fact and would accept it. These forms are the following: As his creator, the Presence mostly features as an idea that Lucifer struggles against throughout the series as he believes that he has no free will as long as he has any connection to the Presence and it's creation, while the Presence argues that Lucifer's own actions are proof of it not being true. One of the more influential examples of fan service in Marvel Comics, "Spider-Verse" is a seven-issue storyline by Dan Slott and Olivier Coipel. And a N52(Vertigo/DC) scan of a deity stated to predate god. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/the-presence-dc-2268361/?page=1#js-message-25926738. 3 wins (60%) 0 (0%) 2 wins (40%) Father. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/final-crisis-explained-2045835/?page=8#js-message-23162091. The Sphere of Gods is beyond the regular DC Multiverse, nohing you have said so far presents any proof she is beyond the DC Multiverse. Even taking into account in fact that New 52 is actually a reboot, it goes agaisnt you as New 52 was partially a "reboot", which, as a common fact, only affects characters below the Sphere of the Gods, and, even bearing this in mind, some charactes such as the Green Lanterns were unaffacted by this reboot. The Presence is a fictional character in comic books published by DC Comics. Not one correction. Anyway I will try to adress this more clearly tomorrow since I am very tired and sleepy now. Just as this is the aspect of myself through which I speak.. The DC Universe is the Shared Universe belonging to DC Comics, established in 1934 and now the oldest major comic book publishing company. Exhaling his quintessence of perfection. LOL at "Pralaya cant be the presences aspect if shes older", when she has been described as "God's unconscious", supporting that the very existence of Pralaya is intrinsically dependent on God, as are the Spectre, Michael Demiurgos, Lucifer, etc. Been the monster in a thousand shadows. Christian drama in the vein of The Deer Hunter, based on the inspirational book (and movie) by Howard Rutledge about the seven years he spent as a prisoner of war in Vietnam. Paras/Parasect Appreciator: QUOTE(Mametchi @ Jul 9 2015, 02:34 PM) Hey guys, I'll be at Comic Con on Saturday (What a lame day to go, heh) So, well, are those posters still gonna be on . Most logical answer is the presence because he is the only one in the entire JLA dark run who is referred to as god Im sure if u ask zatanna, Constantine or Judas this same question they will give off the same response, that the scan where pralaya predates said creator is in reference to yahweh. In short, Yggdrasil >presence as well, so again Im not sure why u posted more ammunition to my point of presence(sphere god) operating on a lower scale. It is up to you to debunk the. He was woaved in the dreaming And anti-monitor killed concepts presence never even dreamed of. Lol, he is only talking about the drawn part of the map, there s written and detailed summary right next to the map that you are still ignoring completely because it says the Endless are below the Monitor Sphere. Try finding Destiny of the Endless in The Multiversity when all the Endless are stated to be on the Sphere of Gods and then we can talk. Even more so when reading the next post you've made, contradicting yourself. DK Vine Forum > Non-Donkey Kong Universe > Non-DKU Rare Discussion. And appealing to Recton, when you have not offered a shred of evidence to support your claim, is laughable. There is not any relevancy by pointing out this statement for the simple reason that there are many Creator/Demiurge figures (Michael, Synnar, Perpetua, Brahma, Yaldabaoth, etc.) MFWolfe: Jul 9 2015, 05:07 PM. This will always be in progress and growing. U are just sum random fishing for retcon scans from diff cosmologys mixing comics to describe a being as the presences aspect. Another interessting made up definion of "defeat" without any encounter between those figures. So, ur the only one making shit up going off record on Twitter, mixing comics that got retcon, to describe a character older than the presence, as his aspect <~~~~ headcanon . as in Aristophanes' comic travesty of fashionable intellectualism where the character Unjust Argument advocates complete licence . HOSTS. If I were u, I would study the definitions of a couple words before misusing them again so it would save me time from having to explain u the diff between for ex; retcon and reboot . @galaxium: probably because he isn't, which is something a lot of people don't realize he definitely has a hand in Hindu I mean stranger an co walked right through the Hindu afterlife which was considered apart of heaven alongside multiple other heavens in n52. They where the that created and destroyed universes. Also, did anyone give an answer to whether the Imps would be above/in/below the Sphere of Gods or not? Perpetua created the main multiverse, the presence created a subset of it, which is part of the N52 omniverse. U of all ppl know the diff between a retcon and a reboot, but u decided to play stupid saying their the same to suit ur narrative, which is evidence ull take/use anything to further ur delusions. Claiming otherwise is incorrect, and the digital tweets of one guy on social media doesn't trump the ink written panels produced by a team on canon media. The Presence is the creator of the Council of Eternity and stated himself that he was everywhere. I made a vow long ago that whenever I am asked who I would like to see on Taskmaster I would answer Adam Buxton. I'm of your faith. In it we can see that the hooded figure at the top of the sketch appears to be Destiny. For someone asserting vehemently to be factual to the comics, using logic and many more, this has yet to be proven, lol. Ok lemme explain the vertigo cosmology I little bit so first you have the infinite nothingness that is the void. You don't even read comics if you think what you said makes sense. Menu. Rama k = ruler of the golden city which is a dimension apart from heaven, shown in n52. B-2: is translated in the presence of in KJV NKJV NLT NIV ESV CSB NASB20 NASB95. Throughout the history of DC Comics, The Presence has undergone different forms. Regarding the second paragraph, I dont need to dwell further as it's not other than a strawman since the point you made was not even brought in the first place: "Which debunks the notion of pralaya being referenced in older comics when she did not exist then." 2022 GAMESPOT, A FANDOM COMPANY. Zeus (GreekMyth) vs The Presence. I'll wait. I rather adress this, the only being called god in n52/rebirth other than the presence, is dr.m. Irrelevant ,as it is not what has been disscused. Prove to me this being exists by giving me a charatcer profile on DC or a being in any of Morrison's run. This is what appears to be another reference to The Source. By true here, I mean Morrisons interpretation of the New Gods in FC before the New 52. If he hadn't had any influence on the Monitor Sphere at all, Roughes wouldn't have said that Destiny is up there and recording everything. So would the Presence and its creation reside within what Sources dominion ? So what it is your point. The Presence So now we base everything on FEATS, SCALING, and SCALING TO COSMOLOGY SIZE of both Marvel and DC. Ur really bad at using examples to debunk me and strengthen ur bs, u used spectre(wrath of god) as an example to say that pralaya is also a servant of god. He's also Brahma and possibly many other Gods btw. You can bring all your headcanon with you after getting a second mental breakdown by reading this post, debunking the rest of your attempts. it pales in comparison to the SUV Coup AMG GLE 63 S in presence, power and the S-Class launched . Ur issue is ur mixing cosmology. Bruh He went from zero to a hundred real quick all because John Constantine tried to invade heaven. My first question being concerns where Lucifer's creation is relative to the Orrery? This shows Lucifer destroying the mansions of silence using his mere presence, now the mansion of silence holds infinite rejected multiverses, universes, and entire creations, all destroyed with his mere presence, a feat that is easily Tier 1-A or Outerversal, so I'd give this one to Luci Proof he doesn't or go away. As for your second paragraph showing an attempt to provide anything substantial to support your claim, it fails terrebly since, first things first, New 52's era is not even a "recton", but a "reboot" (on the surface), so this first mistake set the tone on the loopholes to come. New Gods have absolute no relation to the Angels, or Demons, or none of The Presence's creation, yet they are said to be platonic ideas (primal and fundamental forms of the world, transcendent of reality). Reality warping: The Presence capable of warping and controlling all of reality\. Find a way to tap dance around it. I posted a scan of blight blocking out the presence in humanitys heart, humanity beliefs = collective unconscious, which perpetua created. Where pralaya is said to be a new character introduced as well as others. 211. What implications does Destiny's position bear on the rest of the DC cosmological hierarchy especially regarding the Endless and Lucifer's kin? Im away from my laptop, but honestly, do u really want me to post evidence for something that can be found in the front cover slip of said comic? DeMatt literally wrote in the front cover that he wanted to try something new and make changes to Vertigos/DCs continuity by creating new characters(nick Necro, pralaya) introduced in the N52/rebirth cosmology. This seems to make sense given if can be shown that the death comes to the Black Racer. So "metaphorical " that even the writter DeMatteis, in a secondary source, asserted that Pralaya is an aspect of God , indeed. Destiny of The Endless never appeared in any DC Cosmology comic, he didn't appear on The Multiversity, didn't appear in Final Crisis. A being predates another one because he came first/prior, not because of a difference in terms of power. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, The Presence beyond Understanding and the Mahapralaya, "Geoff Johns Talks Big Changes and Spoilers From DC Universe: Rebirth". We share the very life of Jesus himself and open ourselves to living and loving as he did. With all these evidence compiled, it replies both of your question that there are indeed direct and indirect evidence for the Presence being the depiction of the Abrahamic God and that I can definitely bring them. I cited lines imprinted on a comic book panel, thats still useable up to date. Number 1 no the books are different 2 things to note destinys book is chained to him an cannot be separated from him 2ndly the book of infinite pages tells the story of mandrakk an the monitors. The Source. Contents 1 Background 2 Stats 3 Powers, Techniques, and Equipment 3.1 Powers 4 Minor Feats 4.1 Attack Potency/Strength 4.2 Speed/Reactions 4.3 Durability/Endurance 4.4 Skill/Intelligence 5 Weaknesses 6 Sources 7 Versus Compendium's Conclusions Background Volthoom created . The Presence (Character) - Comic Vine The Presence lists Cosmic Entities 25 created by michaelthefly They are the ones that established a equilibrium in the universe. 0 wins (0%) 1 (7.7%) 12 wins (92.3%) Zeus Zeus GreekMyth: I never changed my mind, and u never debunked a single thing I said lol. So they believe its not the true source wall. The Presence last edited by any Comic Vine content. That's your first problem. those energies are only affecting dietys of the sphere( which is constantly destroyed and recreated by monitors operating on a higher scale like Alpheus). Omnipotence: Being All-Powerful and possesses unlimited almighty power above all in every sense and aspect. The Voice Swamp things Alan Moore is just as relevant as the retcon comics u have piled, literally nothing to do with pralaya. The Presence exists prior to the Collective Unconscious which in fact come from him. He was woaved in the dreaming And anti-monitor killed concepts presence never even dreamed of. 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